Would you consider becoming a certified cave diver?

[24%]

We had an excellent presentation this month about cave diving. Which brings up the question - would you consider becoming a certified cave diver?

 

[diverg]

I voted maybe someday, but most likely will never pursue it. I just think it is to much work, and would prefer more relaxing dives. If I ever got into any tech type diving it would probably be wreck diving.

 

[Sushi Boy]

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Perhaps someday, waaaay down the road, I might be interested in a cavern course just to sharpen my skill set.

For now though there are too many reefs that I haven't been to yet. Fish, sharks & coral hold my attention much more than stalagmites & stalactites.

 

[ivan_abz]

(great presentation from cave diver last night
and it was fun to see everyone again)

Ive done 'cavern' and 'intro to cave'
Ive dived in caves in mexico and florida - love it
even if you decide the cave environment is not for you, you will gain a lot from the training

I would like to progress my cave training, to dive 1/3rds rather than 1/6ths mainly (navigating away from the main line sounds scary)
but your technique needs to be spot on and my frog kick is frankly embarassing

 

[dutch]

I would take up cave diving if I was in better shape and younger but I feel that I should start to be more realistic about what I do. It is definitely something I would have taken up years ago had I met the folks who were active in it.

 

[Smoochy]

I like caverns and feel I see enough there. It's enough excitement for me without the worry and responsibilities of cave diving. Not saying there is no responsibility cavern diving, but it is considerably less and I like it that way. I might take a cavern course for the skills learned, but with no intention to go further.

 

[MichaelBaranowski]

I started my cave training last November with my cavern and intro-cave course. The plan is to finish my full-cave in October. When I first did a cenote I didn't like it much thinking it is just looking at wet rocks. But after a few more tries I really enjoy the caves. The improved skills were a bonus.

 

[rakpix]

i'd like to take cave 1, for the benefits to my fundamental skills, as well as training for a little light wreck penetration (still sounds so dirty!)

 

[Cave Diver]

Cave training does not prepare a diver to perform wreck penetration dives. Wreck penetration training does not prepare a diver to dive caves.

Get the proper training and experience for each specialized diving activity!

 

[rakpix]

but GUE doesn't offer 'wreck' specific training. their cave 1 is for 'overhead environments.' the closest i could do is one of those utd mini-classes, or naui's wreck-diver class which my own instructor lables for 'card collectors.'

 

[Cave Diver]

Here is an article you should read. Steve describes differences between wreck and cave diving. The article is from his excellent presentation that he gave at the NACD conference last November.


Where are you getting your information that GUE Cave Training is for all overhead environments? I do not seem to recall the 'Wreck Penetration' section in my GUE Cave Manual. I also do not see any mention of Wreck Penetration or Wreck Environment in the GUE Standards:
Cave 1
Cave 2
Cave 3


It is disappointing to hear that a NAUI instructor has such a low opinion of both the NAUI course and of divers who want to take training to safely dive a specialized dive environment. By the way, the NAUI Wreck Diver (External Survey) is a prerequisite for the NAUI Wreck Penetration course.

NAUI Technical Diving Courses

What do you mean the 'closest you could do is one of those UTD mini classes?' There are several dive training agencies that offer wreck penetration training.

Bottom line is, for your safety, as well as for others who are considering wreck penetration diving, there are differences between the two specialized environments and divers need to be trained for the specific environments so they can be aware of, minimize, and manage the risks associated with the type of diving they wish to pursue.

 

[24%]

...the closest i could do is one of those utd mini-classes, or naui's wreck-diver class which my own instructor lables for 'card collectors.'

I haven't taken it but I don't think I would call the UTD Wreck1 a mini class. First you have to take "Overhead Protocols" which is 3 days and 9 dives. Then Wreck1 which is 3 days and 6-12 wreck dives.

You can read an interesting class report below... sounds challenging to me, but everyone is different.

Class Report UTD Wreck 1

Very interesting discussion, always good to hear different views/perspectives.

 

[McLOT]

I've been considering progressing with some training in this direction but not sure I want to go the whole cave deal. Perhaps Cavern and see how it goes.

At the very least, it would be very beneficial to learn new skills and tighten up on procedures and also raise confidence in one's diving abilities.

 

[rakpix]

Here is an article you should read. Steve describes differences between wreck and cave diving. The article is from his excellent presentation that he gave at the NACD conference last November.

interesting. do you agree with his summary of the differences between caves and wrecks:


"Gas Management: The Rule of Thirds is sacrosanct to cave divers and wreck divers but there are few wrecks offering several hundred metres of penetration; and so the rule’s application in wreck diving is far more like the Hub Plan used by CCR cave divers than the classic and simpler one third in, one third out used by OC cavers.

Propulsion Techniques: Wreck divers may have to employ a modified pull and glide to navigate narrow corridors inside a wreck where ANY fin movement is guaranteed to reduce visibility to zero in seconds. One other difference is that when a wreck diver kicks a wall by mistake is moves… it might even fall down. Anyhow, finning is NOT the default propulsion technique in “real” wrecks.

Guideline: Cave divers are warned about line traps. Cave divers can follow and usually do follow permanent lines for miles. Wrecks are one big line trap and a permanent line is the stuff of dreams. One might also consider that a continuous line to the surface covers a wreck diver’s need to be able to deploy a DSMB and decompress in blue water. In fact, that constitutes a required skill: hang off knotted line… keeping track of the knots to judge depth, with a blacked out mask, and counting breaths to track time.

Lost Line: Not a big issue when you carry the “permanent” line on a reel in your hand, but a required skill nevertheless for a wreck diver. However, more often than not, during their search for the lost line, students manage to get a manifold, spg, fin or something wrapped up in hanging cable… or their instructor’s simulation of hanging cable. Last time I audited a cave class, tying up the student was not part of the course work. It is in a wreck class. Another time for rodeo work is when students exit through a restriction with blacked out masks sharing air.

Communications, light failures and so on, are no different, but problem solving is. In a cave, the shortest route to fresh air is almost invariably back the way you came. In a wreck, the surface is closer but not necessarily easier to get to. And once there, getting out of the water may be a challenge.

Now if we stopped right now, some of you might leave here thinking, wow, wreck diving sure sounds tougher than cave diving. And in lots of ways, it is. But if things were that simple, how come we are not looking at a bunch of dead cave divers dying in wrecks instead of a bunch of wreck divers who are dying in caves. To be honest, I am able to turn up a constant and irreversible answer to that."

 

[rakpix]

from what he's said, it seems the main difference in training is that instructors will weigh the same risks differently, and teach a different method of line handling & finning. to be honest, i assumed the one-way-in/one-way-out nature of caves made them 10x more dangerous than wrecks, and i'm not particularly keen on ever diving anything more restrictive than a cenote. either way, i want to do my accelerated decompression training with GUE next summer.

 

[Cave Diver]

NO. Not the same risks.
Different environment.
Different hazards.
Different techniques.
Different risks.